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Why Eating Disorders Go Unnoticed and How to Heal in a Way that Works for You with Lily Thrope

Updated: Dec 23, 2022


3 Things We Dive Into In This Episode:

  1. Why eating disorders often go unnoticed and how fitness culture contributes to them.

  2. Why eating disorder recovery is personal; no single solution works for everyone.

  3. How you can use therapy, nutrition therapy, and other modalities to sit in discomfort and ultimately heal from food anxiety and eating-related challenges.

📘Resources

📌Episode Highlights

[02:06] Celebrating Whole, Full, and Alive’s 20th Episode

  • The core mission of this podcast is to help people fall in love with being alive and the person they are.

  • This podcast features conversations about nutrition, neuroscience, meditation, boudoir photography, and so much more!

  • You’re enough; you are whole. This podcast will give you tools and prompts to help you realize and understand yourself.

  • Many people believe that their worth comes from something outside themselves.

[08:07] Introducing Lily

  • Lily is the founder and lead therapist at Thrope Therapy, a psychotherapy practice. Caitie and Lily met when they were in a toxic fitness cult.

  • Lily describes herself as bubbly, energetic, and talkative. She loves Disney World, yoga, spirituality, friends, family, and food.

  • She values honesty and authenticity. Her private practice in New York focuses on eating disorders, body disorders, issues that the LGBTQ+ community face, relationship stress, and dating.

[14:27] Lily’s Approach to Therapy

  • Lily shares she tried to have flexibility in her therapy approach. She believes rigidity is why disorders develop in the first place.

  • People always look at things in black and white. Yet, the reality is that there will be ups and downs in our lives.

  • The intense parts of her therapy sessions usually take only 15-20 minutes. The rest of the session is devoted to coping strategies or things that make the client happy.

[16:35] Lily’s Past Challenges

  • Lily shares failing an anatomy class in college. She realized what she loved about physical therapy and switched to philosophy, eventually leading her to social work.

  • Failures are detours. Things that throw you off course are not the end; they can lead you in a better direction.

  • Life is full of challenges, but we must remember we can overcome difficulties.

  • Another challenge Lily has had to face is her eating disorder, which took a long time for her to realize. In the full episode, Lily shares how Caitie helped her realize this.

  • Learn to acknowledge both the positive and negative sides of life.

[23:48] Lily: “I think what's really important is acknowledging things are not good right now, acknowledging I'm in the shit right now. But I'm going to move through it.” - Click Here To Tweet This

[24:08] The Purpose of Therapy

  • Many people think therapy is about toxic positivity and looking for alternate ways to look at a situation.

  • This belief is incorrect. Therapy is where you'll be able to acknowledge everything in your life, both good and bad.

  • Having a therapist allows you to sit in the discomfort together, not alone.

  • Lily recommends in-person therapy.

[27:02] How Lily and Caitie Met

  • Caitie met Lily in a fitness studio that incorporated a diet regime.

  • She felt she couldn't speak out against the diet until she could talk with Lily about it.

  • We all deserve therapy and a safe space to process and heal.

  • Caitie realized the significance of her position as a fitness instructor and working at an eating disorder treatment center.

  • Eating disorders have become so normalized that we don’t even realize it.

[33:51] Why Do Eating Disorders Go Unnoticed?

  • The diet industry is a billion-dollar industry. We're constantly bombarded by diets portrayed as helpful and healthy.

  • Diets are designed for you to fail so you keep coming back.

  • Society celebrates and perpetuates eating disorders, creating a vicious cycle that makes eating disorder recovery more difficult.

  • People also have the impression that eating disorders are only related to fitness or thinness. Yet, it can affect people of all body sizes.

  • Eating disorders may not be visible by looking at people's bodies. Even medical professionals are not always aware of these disorders.

[39:08] Lily: “How is this impacting your life? How is this impacting your mental health? How is your relationship with food making you feel? And that's a big part of eating disorders that I think is invisible.” - Click Here To Tweet This

[39:44] How Eating Disorders Develop

  • Sometimes, even doctors themselves encourage behaviors that border on eating disorders.

  • So many doctors still use BMI as a proxy for health and make assumptions about people’s health using their body size and shape.

  • There's no catch-all way to solve health problems. Most often, people must be flexible to find out what's really happening.

  • So many people and doctors make food and nutrition their business.

  • It’s incredibly important to have flexibility in your life.

[43:28] How to Make Better Choices for Eating Disorder Recovery

  • Remember, there’s no one universal solution to problems.

  • So many eating disorders start because people follow one person’s approach instead of listening to themselves.

  • Don’t just follow advice blindly.

[43:40] Lily: “Anyone who says, do this thing, I don't care what it is do this thing and you will not have anxiety, you will feel better your back won't hurt your this. There is not one thing that changes how we feel, there is no one thing in this world that changes how we feel.” - Click Here To Tweet This

[45:59] How People Recover from Eating Disorders

  • There's no one-size-fits-all approach to eating disorder recovery. Despite this, so many programs are rigid and are not personalized.

  • There should be more awareness regarding creating environments conducive to recovery.

  • When people want to recover, they must first identify what they need. For example, whether they can be an outpatient or need to go residential.

  • People need to feel safe to recover from eating disorders. Disorders are, at their core, about seeking a source of safety.

[51:54] What Eating Disorder Recovery Looks Like

  • Identify the safest environment where you feel you can let go of unhealthy behaviors.

  • This doesn't always mean medical treatments — it can also be about your community and support groups.

  • Remember, while you can fully recover from the disorder, it can still come back. There is often something underneath the disorder you need to heal from.

  • Lily curated her Instagram and media content to create a safer environment for herself.

  • For Lily, flexibility means being able to do what you want and need in your time.

[59:33] Do What You Love

  • Take time to do something outside of your work.

  • Don't feel guilty about drinking coffee because of the trend of people saying it's bad for you.

  • Coffee might be supportive to your daily life and your grounding routines.

  • Consider what health risks it might entail for you, but be flexible and decide what is important to you and what the best choice for your wellness is.

[1:02:47] The Processing Prompt and Experiment

  • Reflect on this: in what area of your life do you feel lacks a sense of flexibility? What is that teaching you about yourself?

  • Remember, be compassionate with yourself.

  • If you believe you need to do something a certain way every single day, try doing the opposite and do something different to see how it feels.

About Lily

Lily Thorpe, LCSW, is the founder of Thrope Therapy LCSW PLLC, a psychotherapy practice located in Midtown Manhattan. Thrope Therapy specializes in supporting individuals who experience eating disorders, disordered eating, low self-esteem, anxiety, depression, and LGBTQIA-related issues. Lily is also a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor and HAES aligned.

Lily helps her clients find the confidence to face these issues and find ways to live their happiest and most authentic lives. Lily is committed to fostering an environment where the client is the expert of their own story and therefore has integral skills for working towards their therapy goals.

Connect with Lily: Thrope Therapy I Instagram


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Transcript

Lily: Anyone who says I don't care what it is, do this thing and you will not have anxiety, you will feel better, your back won't hurt. There is not one thing that changes how we feel. There is no one thing in this world that changes how we feel.


I think what happened to me in the yoga practice was I was a very anxious and depressed person. The leader of this cult said, you will not feel those things if you do this diet, and yeah, okay, maybe I didn't feel those things anymore. But now I had an eating disorder, I treated one mental health challenge for another and that is not healing.


Caitie: Welcome to Whole, Full and Alive, a podcast exploring the art and science of falling in love with your life, with your story and with who you truly are. Underneath your titles, your resume, your relationship status, and your bank account.


I'm Caitie Corradino, a registered dietician, nutritionist, certified fitness and yoga instructor, eating disorder recovery coach, Reiki healer, and founder of Full Soul Nutrition. But underneath my titles and resume, a big fan of kitchen dance breaks, early mornings, all things chocolate truffles, world traveling and serendipity.I'm here to share no bullshit stories and actionable tools to help you feel unshakably worthy, you have everything you need within you to feel whole, full and alive. Right here. Right now. Let's get into it.


Hey, welcome back to another episode of hole four for and alive. I guess it's actually not just another episode of Whole, Full, and Alive. It is episode 20. Full, full and alive episode two, zero — that feels like a milestone. It absolutely feels like a milestone. I am looking back at the last 20 episodes and feeling first of all, so grateful that you're here that you're tuning in, that we're connected in some way, and that there is a small community forming around this podcast that feels so good. Mind blowing. I'm so excited about it.


I'm also looking back at the last 20 episodes and seeing that we've covered such a range of topics. There have been so many incredible guests bringing their perspectives. There have been so many topics that I'm excited to have explored in solo episodes. I mean, we have done nutrition Q&As, we've talked about eating disorder recovery, we've talked about what to look for in a therapist and holding space. We've talked about neuroscience, we have talked about meditation, and contemplative practices. We've talked about breakups. We've talked about self compassion. We've talked about boudoir and boudoir photography, how to tell intuition from anxiety, financial wellness and financial planning, body image.


So much stuff like so, so much stuff has come up over these past 20 episodes. And so, before I dive into introducing today's guest, and today's topic, I just want to take a moment to reorient us to the mission of this podcast. So while we're talking about all of these different topics, and interviewing such a diverse array of amazing women, I just want to remind you that the mission of this show is to help you fall in love with being alive and to help you fall in love with the person that you are, underneath all of the things that the world tells you you're incomplete without, I want you to know that you're whole, I want you to know that your worth is inherent. And I want you to know that you will never feel as good as you can feel. If there's something you think you're inadequate without. That's why we're here on this microphone.


You will never feel as good as you can feel if there's something you think you're inadequate without. And so through all of the topics that we're exploring on this episode, through all the tools, all of the processing prompts all of the actionable experiments that I'm giving you. I hope that you will learn to source a sense of home within yourself, to source a sense of safety and completeness from within yourself and to release any rigid attachment that you have to something outside of you that you think you need to feel complete.


That is my main mission here because I think at the end of the day, whether I'm talking to a client about their eating disorder recovery, or talking to a client about healing their body image, or talking to a friend about recovering from a breakup, or talking to myself, at the end of a hard day, I find that the biggest obstacle that so many people come up against is the belief that they are not worthy unless they have something outside of themselves, they are not worthy, unless they have a partner, they are not worthy, unless they have a certain job, they are not worthy unless they have a certain degree.


And, because people tend to feel that they are not whole. Without those things outside of themselves, they tend to feel really unsafe, and dysregulated and sort of uncomfortable in their bodies until they find that thing. And then if that thing is taken away from them, they tend to feel unsafe in their bodies, ungrounded in their bodies, uncentered, their world is rocked a little bit.


So through all of these conversations that we're having about all of these different topics, I hope that above all else, you get some tangible tools for feeling so good in your own body. So good with yourself so complete, so hold within that everything outside of you just amplifies and adds to your sense of aliveness, rather than being your source of aliveness, or your source of wholeness or your source of completeness.


I'm totally learning out loud here with you. I am an expert in helping people recover from eating disorders and disordered eating, and from body image distress and body image issues. And also, I am learning out loud here, I am still myself learning how to source a sense of wholeness, a sense of completeness from within, I've shared a few times on this show that I have a tendency to source, a sense of completeness, and a sense of wholeness from being in a relationship from being in a romantic partnership.


This year has really been about understanding how I can move through the world as a late 20s single woman and really, really love my life and everything about it and know that I can meet a partner eventually, and they'll add to my life and amplify it, but it won't be the thing that makes my life complete, you know. I've also shared that I have struggled with my relationship with money, my relationship with finances and sourcing a sense of wholeness from the number in my bank account. I am certainly here to be a guide for you to be a teacher for you in whatever way I can and also to just meet you at eye level as a human being and share with you what I'm learning as I live life as I research as I interview all the amazing guests who are coming on this show.


So with that, let me introduce today's amazing, amazing guest. Her name is Lily Thrope. She is the founder and lead therapist at throat therapy, which is a mental health therapy private practice based in Manhattan. So Lily is the lead therapist and founder at this private practice and she has multiple therapists working under her. She is a badass.


Lily is also one of the most important people in both my personal life and my professional life. Lily is a very good friend of mine, we are actually going to talk on this podcast about our meet cute. Lily and I met years and years ago, when we were both in the throes of like this toxic fitness cult. And we ended up bonding over the fact that we realized that this toxic fitness cult was a toxic fitness cut, basically bonded over that. Then we stayed in touch for years after and we both ended up opening up our own private practices — myself in nutrition and Lily in mental health therapy.


Now we get to collaborate all the time on client cases and we support each other in the growth of our businesses. And it is just so amazing. I'm so grateful to have Lily in my life. On today's episode Lily is going to talk briefly about her approach to mental health counseling and therapy. And then Lily is going to talk a little bit about her own eating disorder recovery and what it's like to be a recovered clinician. Then we're going to talk about why eating disorders tend to go unnoticed, why eating disorders are one of the most unnoticed and unaccounted for mental health conditions. And then we're also going to talk about why eating disorder recovery is unique for each person and why It's important for each individual to find an environment that is going to be supportive for them in their own eating disorder recovery.


This conversation is certainly for you if you are thinking about working with a therapist right now and uncertain where to start. Or if you're feeling like you want to work with a new therapist, and are looking maybe for a different and unique approach and want to hear more about lilies. This is also a great episode for you. If you're curious about eating disorder recovery, and what the eating disorder treatment process might look like, and why it needs to be unique for each individual person. I would say this is especially for you if you're someone who's finding yourself exploring the world of eating disorder recovery on social media, and you're feeling kind of confused about what it's supposed to look like to recover from an eating disorder.


I'm so grateful that Lily gave her time, her energy, her professional opinion and wisdom to this episode, and I'm so excited to dive in. Here is my interview episode 20 with Lily Thrope. All right, Lily, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to finally have you on the show. You are one of the most important people in my professional and personal life. And I'm so stoked to talk to you today.


Lily: Amazing. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be on the podcast. I've been listening since the old podcast. So I'm really excited to be a part of it and share some important content that we have planned today.


Caitie: Yeah, this is long overdue, this conversation. So before we get into anything, please tell me who are you? What makes you who you are? How would you describe your energy? What lights you up? How do people know when they're in a room with Lily, all that good stuff.


Lily: So I hink I'm pretty bubbly, energetic and talkative. I think people would definitely say talkative. I don't really shut up, which I think is a good thing. I'm also really positive. And I think I bring a sense of calm and non judgmental energy. But I also have a lot of positive vibes. And I think that defines me as a therapist, as well as a human.


I think what lights me up is Disney World. I know that's very complicated for a lot of people, but I'm just being honest. I think yoga lights me up, I think spirituality lights me up, my community lights me up, like being close with my friends, my family, all of those things are so important to me, as well as food, I love food. And I think food lights me up. And that's something that I'm really passionate about. So I feel like those are some good attributes.


Caitie: I love that you're one of the few friends I have who talks as much as I do. And so funny when you and I are in a room together, non stop. I think if there's ever a third person involved in our conversation, they're not getting the word. Vote very talkative. People love that you are a confident Disney adult. I mean, let's bust some myths about Disney adults. Lily is a very fun, outgoing, energetic person. And also I do feel like you definitely bring all of who you are into what you do. And tell us what is it that you do? And how do you bring some of those aspects of who you are into what you do?


Lily: Yeah, thank you for saying that. I feel like I am a very authentic person. And I think people appreciate that. I'm super honest and open about who I am in my work and in my personal life. And I'm happy to share challenges I've been through or successes. And I think that makes a huge difference. And authenticity is so important to me.


So I am a licensed clinical social worker, and I have my own private practice in New York City. I have three amazing associates that work with me. And we do have a focus on eating disorders. But we also work with, you know, all genders, all sexual orientations, all races, ethnicities, we work with everything under the sun, but we do have a big focus on eating disorders, body image, LGBTQ+ issues, relationship stress, dating, obviously huge in New York City. And yeah, we're located in Midtown. And we have an office on 40th and lax where we see clients in person and virtually.


And yeah, that's me. I'm also a certified Intuitive Eating counselor, which I actually did because of Caitie, she introduced me to intuitive eating. So that's something that I think we're both really passionate about. And she has really helped me become more professional around using intuitive eating in my work with my clients.


Caitie: Love that. We went through the process actually of becoming Intuitive Eating counselors together, which was a lot of fun, because it isn't fun to take tests and read things and look at lectures and stuff. But it's definitely more fun to do with a friend. So I'm glad we went through that process together.


And yes, Lily is starting a small empire, her private practice. I think that the world needs more therapy practices, and especially New York City needs more individualized boutique private practice. says that take that really individualized approach. And that's something I really want to highlight about Lily's work is that she's a fantastic therapist in the sense that she really creates custom. I don't want to call it a program, but you create a custom treatment process and recovery and healing process for each and every one of your clients. And I would love for you to kind of speak to that a little bit, what is unique about the approach that you take at your private practice


Lily: Flexibility is something I really try to model. And I think there's a lot of rigidity in our world. I think the rigidity is part of why eating disorders develop in the first place. But rigidity is just something that leads us to the black and white thinking that leads us to, you know, success or failure and not not able to take your story and look at it in a more like perspective based way, it just puts us in this position where we're always looking at everything as like, success, failure, good, bad, all these words that are on opposite sides of the spectrum. Instead, can we be flexible, and like some weeks, it's going to be really good with scheduling, you know, some weeks, it's going to be really good with your ability to be vulnerable.


And some weeks, we're going to talk about the TV show you watch that made you think about something from your childhood. So I think it's that modeling of the flexibility of one, the intensity of the sessions, like I typically say 15 to 20 minutes is the amount of intensity that a person can really, truly tolerate. And then for the rest of the session, we need to talk about either coping strategies or things that light you up or you know, what you have coming up that week. So I think that modeling of flexibility with the clients is also really, really important.


Caitie: Hmm, that's such a good point. That's such a good point. So what's the challenge you experienced in your life that brought you to where you are today and what you're doing today?


Lily: Yeah, so I think I have two challenges that I want to talk about. The first one is a quick one, you know, I failed a class in college, and it was anatomy. And I thought I wanted to be a physical therapist, and my junior year I failed anatomy, which is like the main class for physical therapy. And, you know, I think I could have had the reaction of my whole life's over, I don't know what I'm gonna do. But I was really lucky to have support from my family, and at the time, my therapist, to be able to transition and realize, what did I love about physical therapy, I love the healing journey.


I was able to transition into my minor, which was philosophy, and take that on, and you know, all the comments of like, what are you going to do with a philosophy degree, that's a waste of time, that's a waste of money, whatever that was, it led me to go into social work school. And I think I'm a really passionate social worker. And I'm glad that I landed here.


So I think that's a reminder that even if something throws you off course, you fail a class or you don't get that certification, or you don't get that degree, it doesn't mean that your life is going in a tailspin, it maybe means that you're just like transitioning to something even better. So I think that was part of my story that really helped me get where I needed to be. And then I think the biggest thing is my eating disorder. And Caitie is really the first person that pointed out to me that I had an eating disorder.


I was struggling for probably two to three years before I even realized that that is what was going on. I think deep down, I knew that that's what I was struggling with, but no one had pointed it out. And I had been so congratulated for the weight loss and the discipline and how I was treating my body when at the end of the day, I was actually just self harming. That's really what I would call it. So me and Caitie actually met through this crazy yoga practice that will not be named.


It's like Voldemort, like he who shall not be named is this yoga practice. We, you know, met in New York, I think Caitie was in dietitian school at the time. And I was also in social work school, and I just opened up to her a little bit about, you know, this powder that I was eating every day for breakfast for two full years, I powder and water for breakfast. That was part of this yoga practice was this diet that had these restrictions and rules and also this powder. And Caitie, I remember we were in a coffee shop in the East Village. And Caitie just calmly said to me, you have an eating disorder.

I think my whole world was just like, it almost came into clarity. It was just like, Whoa, this is why I've been feeling so terrible and obsessive and all these things. So that was kind of the first step for me to get introduced to intuitive eating and you connected me with a dietitian in the city and I worked with her and we know discovered all these Intuitive Eating principles that helped me recover from my eating disorder.


I definitely attribute a lot of my eating disorder recovery to you Caitie and and my dietician that I worked with and my therapist and my entire team as well as my family.


Caitie: I want to address both the things that you shared, first of all, the failing the anatomy class thing. I believe it's so important if I had heard when I was younger, that my therapist failed anatomy or something like that, it would have helped me so much. I really want to pull over and acknowledge which because I really had failures in my life, especially in like college and my postgraduate where I just was like, I thought my life was over, I thought my life was in a tailspin, as you said.


If I had heard, you know, someone that I look up to, such as my therapist, that they had like a detour like that in their life, I think like, it really is just a detour, right? The obstacle is really just a detour in the direction that you're supposed to be going, it would have been really helpful for me. And that's something that I admire about you, as a clinician, I think that you disclose in a way that is helpful when it's helpful. And that's something that I have carried into my practice as well is when I noticed a client is going through or navigating an obstacle like that trying to share like, this is a very normal part of life.


This is something that happens as human beings, we have failures. And so that's something I want to pull over and acknowledge first is that, yeah, like you and you don't get that certification, or you don't pass that test, or that one thing doesn't pan out. And it feels like it's absolutely the end of the world, ends up being a speck in the galaxy of your life. And it ends up also often being something that leads you in the right direction and detour in the right direction. Something that's come up a few times on this podcast, for sure.


Lily: I feel like what you're not saying is like perfectionism, like I think you were experiencing was this perfectionism. And if you had someone, whether it was a family member, or adult, or a therapist, say like, Look, I've had failures, and I think life's okay, and you know, things come back on course, like, I think everyone being honest about the different course challenges they've had would help everyone feel more comfortable just acknowledging that there are going to be challenges, life is challenging, that's important to recognize, but we can face it together.


We can, you know, to steal Glendon Doyle's phrase, we can do hard things. I think that's true, like we can do these hard things, and we can transition and it can turn out really beautiful, like our mess is pretty beautiful. I think. So I think it's important that we just, you know, as therapists recognize, we're not perfect, and almost everyone in the therapy world has had some sort of mental health challenge. And that's what brought them to this world.


Caitie: Yeah, it reminds me of what you were saying earlier about modeling flexibility. And modeling, that life is a gray and messy area. And that's what makes it beautiful. It's not perfection that makes life beautiful. If everything went the way we thought it was going to go, our life is not as fulfilling or as enriching, or as meaningful as it can be. It's these failures and these detours and these unexpected things that pop up these challenging moments, these hardships that ultimately do end up making life beautiful.


But it's important to give yourself the support of a mental health professionals that you can navigate that and start to see the beauty and create meaning and things. And I think that is one of the most important gifts of mental health counselors, and therapists is their ability to help us create meaning from our lives in that way. And it's not just painting a silver lining on the ship that hits the fan. It's not just saying like, Oh, you failed that test. Okay, here's the silver lining, it led you into this direction. It's sitting in that it's feeling it, it's acknowledging how much it can hurt. And also moving through that and past that and creating meaning and connecting the dots and allowing yourself to rise from it.


Lily: Definitely, yeah, I love the word acknowledging that's the part that I think a lot of people miss when they do the silver lining the you know, false positivity or whatever people are called toxic positivity. That's what it's called, where people are just like, oh, but this happened. Oh, but this is good in your life. Yeah, I think what's really important is acknowledging things are not good right now, acknowledging I'm in the shit right now. But I'm going to move through it. And I'm also going to use supports that are at my, you know, hands like I have these supports, like a therapist, like a dietician, like a family member, whoever is going to be part of your kind of treatment team.


Caitie: Yeah, I think that's what deters people from therapy, sometimes they think that they're just going to like, go into the therapy office, and their therapist is gonna, like paint a silver lining on their life and use toxic positivity and be like, you've got this, you can do this. And like, it's not that bad. And here's why it's not that bad. Let's just look at it this way. And therapy is not the practice of finding alternative perspectives on shitty situations.


I think that is a really important thing to acknowledge therapy is actually a place where you do acknowledge all of it, you acknowledge the full spectrum of the experience, that includes acknowledging how hard and how messy and how difficult something is, and also, what can we create meaning from here?


What is perhaps more positive about this experience? What are you learning from this experience? What about this is enriching your life and That's what therapy gave me the ability to do is to experience everything that we have the capacity to experience as a human being the good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful, the wonderful. And so therapy is not just a place where if you're someone who's still out there contemplating it, it's not just a place where your therapist is gonna sit there and be like, Oh, here's why it's not that bad.


Your therapist will give you the ability to tell the truth, acknowledge the truth of the situation, like Lily said, acknowledge, it's an important word what, what does suck right now. And also, what is good right now, because two things can be true at the same time. And I think we lose our ability to do that, in our black and white world that we're living in nowadays, because it feels much safer to be a black or white person. It's all bad, or it's all good.

Our brains kind of like that when things are feeling out of control. But we need to, again, coming back to this idea of flexibility, be able to acknowledge that two things are true at the same time.


Lily: Definitely, yeah, I think the biggest thing that a therapist can offer you is sitting in the discomfort together, you don't have to sit in your discomfort alone. And sometimes we don't feel comfortable to be vulnerable with family members or partners. And your therapist is a special place where you can sit and be uncomfortable and come up with your plan or your you know, story or your narrative around what happened where you're not feeling judged, you're not feeling pressured, you're just sitting in the discomfort for as long as you need to sit in that discomfort before you move forward.


I think that's something therapists really can offer. And this is why I like being in person, I think, coming into a therapy space and being able to dump all your shit in that actual space on the couch, on the floor, wherever it is, leave that space and revisit it every week feels really great. Obviously, there's a great, you know, benefit to virtual therapy as well. But I really love the in person idea. So if you're looking to get started, I think a great place to start is in person. So you have that container in your therapist’s office.


Caitie: And also speaking of in person we met in person, I feel like I don't meet that many people in person initially. Nowadays, I meet a lot of new people via Zoom and stuff like that. But you and I met in person, Jesus, a long time ago. And it's, it's so interesting to hear you reflect the story back, because the way, the way I remember it, and I kind of want to tell my side of the story because Lily and I did meet in this very for lack of a better word toxic fitness community.


We were kind of part of the same fitness studio in New York City that had as Lily was saying a yoga practice and like a diet associated with it. And at the time, I was all gung ho about the yoga practice. I loved it, I loved that style of movement, I found it to be a really good way for me to heal my relationship with my body and a lot of ways honestly. But I hated the diet that was attached to it, I hated it. And everybody was a part of it, everyone was drinking the powder. It was like literally drinking the Kool Aid. Like that was a literal thing that was happening there.


Everyone had this protein powder for breakfast every single day. And as someone who was doing my master's in nutrition and working at eating disorder treatment center at the time, I was like, this is way disordered. And I felt like I couldn't speak that. I felt like I was silenced. Many times when I tried to speak up about how harmful I felt the diet was I was always shut down.


There are multiple times we were sitting in circles with everybody who would do this yoga practice and do this diet. And I would ask questions like, Hey, don't you think this is kind of harmful? And the leader of the cult of the group would be like, hush, Caitie, you are wrong. And that just kept happening over and over again. And then I met Lily and I spoke my thoughts and feelings out loud to Lily and she was the first person who heard me the first person and the first person who was like, Whoa, yeah, you are actually making a lot of sense the way you're speaking about this on a scientific level and emotional level and you know, psychological level, it makes a lot of sense.


Yes, this was kind of fucked up. And I really, really love hearing that. It was a life changing and healing conversation for you that we had at that Starbucks one day after a yoga class. And I want to also reciprocate, that it was healing and life changing for me to have been heard by someone in that community when I felt like I was just begging into thin air and no one was hearing me and I was like, Am I crazy? Like is what I'm learning in school wrong? Like, is there something wrong with me? And so I am so deeply appreciative of the way you heard me and saw me. And I wonder if I actually did say to you, you have an eating disorder, because I would never say that to anyone today, but I wonder if I actually said that.