Updated: Aug 30
When was the last time you felt comfortable in your own skin? With society’s constant bombardment of what we should and should not look like, it’s not easy to find peace with our body image. And when we can’t extend love to ourselves, it stretches out to how we show up in other parts of our lives as well. The journey will be difficult and uncomfortable, but you can reframe the narrative and start taking your power back.
In the fourth episode of Whole, Full, & Alive, Caitie and Brianna explore body image and how it extends to other areas of life. How do we navigate grief around how we perceive our bodies? Body image coach Brianna Campos shares her experience making peace with her body image and how now she helps former body grievers do the same.
If you find yourself stuck and sitting with body grief, listen to this episode and start making peace with yourself!
💡Three reasons why you should listen to this episode:
Why sitting with grief is a crucial part of the self + body love journey.
Find your own balance between providing free content to your audience and being fairly compensated for your time and energy.
Learn the power of impactful reframing - unlearning the old messages we tell ourselves and replacing them with equally intense truths.
Release restrictive dieting, break free from body shame, & create habits that help you live fully! Sign up for Caitie’s nutrition coaching program and community, Whole, Full, and Alive, and get a FREE 20 Minute Discovery Call!
Rising Strong by Brené Brown
Listen to The Body Grievers Club Podcast 💫 with Bri and take the first step in making peace with your here-and-now body!
[03:46] Who Is Brianna Campos?
Brianna is a body image coach and a trained mental health counselor in New Jersey.
Bri calls herself an accidental entrepreneur. She got interested in body image from her lived experience and experience as a provider in eating disorder recovery.
She has always felt that the conversation on body image was lacking.
Body Image with Bri started as a blog. Four years later, it's now a business that has helped hundreds of people struggling with body image as well as recovery providers.
Bri's new venture is helping former body grievers embrace their new identity as entrepreneurs.
[06:18] Overcoming Challenges
The biggest challenge Bri had to and continues to overcome is the identity of a people pleaser.
The fear of a changing body comes from how we think other people will perceive us.
She had to reach a point where she could only care about what she thought of herself.
Body Image with Bri wouldn’t exist if she remained stuck in her body image grief.
Brianna: “My goal every time I post, every time I show up, is that if one person can feel less alone in their own grief, then I've done my job.” - Click Here to Tweet This
[09:15] Climbing One Hill after Another
What makes the journey daunting is not knowing when you will arrive.
Having the right tools and skills will enable you to manage — no matter what obstacle shows up.
It is hard, but part of the journey is sitting with the grief. When you're ready, you can utilize these tools to get through it.
Then, you can either help someone else with your new skills or utilize them in another area.
[13:25] Sitting in the Suck
Brianna: “That's the point, that it is both — it is ‘and.’ It is the suck and the joy. It is the food freedom and the food struggle. It is the body acceptance and the body distress. The presence of one is evidence that the other can exist — it is not ‘either-or.’” - Click Here to Tweet This
The diet culture mentality gets us stuck believing we always have to get from one place to another.
Your feelings don’t care if you pretend the suck doesn’t exist. Your body will feel what it feels.
Sometimes, it's more effortful to pretend it doesn't bother you than to acknowledge what you feel.
[16:30] On Grief and Body Positivity
The core of "body acceptance" and "neutrality" is wanting your body to take up less space in your brain.
You're never going to hate your body into neutrality. If love feels impossible, then accept your current reality and extend kindness to your body.
Brianna: “If you're not willing to be honest about your struggle, about your own internalized hatred or fear of, we can't move forward.” - Click Here to Tweet This
Bri says she doesn’t love how her body looks now. But it no longer impacts her behavior and how she perceives herself.
At the end of grief are acceptance, acknowledgment, and learning.
[22:01] Bri’s Inspiration for Creating a Space for People in the Helping Professions
If there is no tension or a little bit of healthy stress in your life, it means you’re complacent.
Bri started Body Image with Bri because she wanted to be the person she needed at the height of her struggle.
Bri didn't find anything when she searched "body image support group" on Instagram, so she created one.
During the pandemic, her job as a children’s mental health counselor suddenly became unreliable.
Her group immediately filled up upon its launch and found success.
[24:08] Becoming Who She Needed When She Was Starting Her Business
But the group's success dwindled soon after — the narrative that running a helping business isn't reliable began to play out.
Bri realized that this narrative is the same thing she teaches people about body image. You have to assess whether there is merit and truth to it.
She had a high ROI because she had never offered anything before. She had to think of ways to sell to her newest leads ethically.
Bri’s offers align with integrity and her core values of compassion and justice. She needed to find a creative yet accessible way to make money.
She invested in a coach and filled the gaps in her business mindset.
[26:34] Taking Care of Yourself as a Helper
Helpers, especially those in the dietetic and eating disorder world, have always been taught they’re not in it for the money. However, everything costs money.
The story Bri told herself was that she is more worthy when giving. She reframed it into the idea that healthy relationships are equal parts giving and receiving.
It’s right to be financially compensated for your time and energy.
Bri realized she became resentful of pouring out free content because she was doing it out of obligation. Now, she shares because she finds purpose in it.
[29:18] Advocating Yourself as a Helper
From a body image perspective, reparenting is advocating for the younger self in need.
Is it a mindset, or is it an actual problem? 90% of it is your mindset and how you approach the situation.
There is no “reliable job.” The most reliable thing in your life is yourself.
[31:48] Impactful Reframe
The idea that you're more worthy when giving is a product of what Bri calls a head-to-heart knowledge disconnect.
The reframe has to match the intensity. It can’t be just the opposite of the current narrative.
For a financial reframe, Bri advocates that people in the helping profession deserve a livable wage.
[35:11] Navigating the Guilt of Reframing
Other people’s relationship with money is not your relationship with money.
It's hard to rely on yourself and be able to say your gift of helping people is worth compensation. It's opposite to everything we've learned.
The saying that you must not give away all your stuff for free is a form of a scarcity mindset. The opposite of scarcity is not abundance; it's having enough.
Bri doesn't mind people accessing her information and repeating it without credit because she knows her offers are uniquely hers.
[42:55] Start Dreaming of the Possibility
Think of where you are right now and where you'd like to be. Are you living in alignment with your values?
Start envisioning and dreaming of the possibility; figure out what tangible steps you need to take to get there.
[44:53] Bri’s Morning and Evening Rituals
The idea of ritual is permission. It’s an invitation rather than an obligation.
Bri has created a space in her room where she can roll out her yoga mat and do stretches upon waking up. Her favorite part about it is her furry feline joining in.
Bri is still working on getting grounded in the evening after a day's worth of work. She recommends taking time off of work for people struggling with this.
Listening to audiobooks is a part of her nighttime routine.
She also enjoys crafting and being creative. She finds lessons in these hobbies.
Brianna Campos is a Licensed Professional Counselor focusing on eating disorder recovery. Briana helps clients with body image through a weight-inclusive lens. In particular, she uses the Health at Every Size (HAES) paradigm to help clients find freedom and peace with food and their body. Brianna has also worked as an adjunct professor, teaching Introduction to Eating Disorders.
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Brianna Campos: If I were still stuck in my body image grief of being afraid of how people would perceive my body, Body Image with Bri wouldn't exist. And my goal, every time I post, every time I show up, is that if one person can feel less alone in their own grief, then I've done my job.
Caitie Corradino: Welcome to Whole, Full, & Alive, a podcast exploring the art and science of falling in love with your life, with your story and with who you truly are underneath your titles, your resume, your relationship status, and your bank account. I'm Caitie Corradino, a registered dietitian nutritionist, certified fitness and yoga instructor, eating disorder recovery coach, Reiki healer, and founder of Full Soul Nutrition.
Hey, welcome to episode four of Whole, Full, & Alive. I am really really excited to introduce you to today's guest. Her name is Brianna better known as Bri Campos. She is a licensed mental health counselor, and a body image coach and more recently, a business coach for entrepreneurs in the helping professions other licensed mental health counselors dietitians like myself. On today's episode, Bri is going to talk about her unique approach to body image healing, a lot of really actionable nuggets and mindset shifts and so many beautiful things that I think will really help anyone who is working with body image or body grief.
She also is going to talk a little bit about her unique approach to business and entrepreneurship, which I think will be really valuable for anyone listening to this whether or not you're an entrepreneur, whether or not you're in the helping professions, her perspective towards both body image and Business and Entrepreneurship has been really truly life changing for me. So I am so excited for you to hear her voice today and to have your mind blown by some of the things that she shares.
We go through the body image stuff first and the first half of the episode how she sort of changed the way she was approaching body image for her own healing and then also for her clients. And then we sort of dive in and shift into the business and helping professions stuff and I just I really am so inspired by Bri I am so excited to introduce you to her. So without further ado, let's get into my interview with Bri Campos.
Hey everybody, welcome to a Whole, Full, & Alive. I am so so so excited to be here with Bri Campos. Do you like to be called Brianna, your full name or Bri?
Brianna: I like to be called Bri, Brianna. I always joke that I have one parent that calls me Brianna and one that calls me Brianna. And so people are like, what's your name? And I'm like, I don't know. Everyone can agree on Bri.
Caitie: Love that. I've never asked you that before. So I'm just realizing that now as I'm introducing you on a podcast. And also I'm so so so excited to be here with you talking to you today, learning from you, you have such a creative and amazing brain. And I'm so stoked to introduce this audience to you. And before I dive into all my questions, I would love for you to tell everyone who you are. And of course I want to hear about what you do and your job and your career and the things you've created. And also who are you? What do you value, what's important to you? Who do you want to be in the world?
Brianna: So the light questions.
Caitie: That’s what we do here.
Brianna: Well, I am so grateful to be here. Thank you so much for asking me. My pronouns are she her. I am a body image educator and coach. I am also a trained mental health counselor. I live in Jersey, my heart bleeds cheetah print, I love all things. Coffee, cats, bagels, I mean, you name it and most Jersey things that you can think of. Cheetah print, love it all. I have stumbled into this work. I always call myself an accidental entrepreneur.
I got my start with body image, aside from my lived experience in eating disorder recovery as a provider and eating disorder recovery. And I always felt like the conversation on body image was just lacking. And so today is actually my four year anniversary of my first ever Body Image with Bri post. When I started Body Image with Bri, it was a blog. It was just a conversation piece. I would have never imagined that four years later, it would be a business that not only supports me but supports other small businesses.
We have helped hundreds of not only people struggling to make peace with their hearing nobody but providers and providers who are looking to help their clients with body image. And now my new venture of helping the former body griever, the person who used to be consumed by their body, embrace their new identity as an entrepreneur. And so I'm here for all of it. My little catchphrase is that I teach body acceptance through the lens of body grief. So that is me in a nutshell.
Caitie: What a beautiful nutshell. I am so excited to be here on the fourth anniversary of your business. Congratulations. What a cool celebration.
Brianna: Thank you. Thank you.
Caitie: Little anniversary party. So yeah, wow. So much, so much goodness in there. I also, you know, because we do the light questions here. I also love to open episodes by asking my guests, you know, what's one challenge you overcame in your life that made you who you are today that led you to this beautiful work that you do and to become this beautiful being that you are?
Brianna: That's such a great question. I would say that probably the biggest challenge that I had to overcome and continue to overcome is the identity of a people pleaser, I always joke that I'm a recovering people pleaser. And something that I find, especially in body image, is that our fear of our body's changing comes from how other people are going to perceive us. And it's painful and traumatic. And I had to get to a point where I wasn't. I can only care about what I think about myself when I lay my head on my pillow at the end of the night.
And then you know, thinking okay, well I've mastered it and body image, it's gonna go away and all the other areas of my life known and unknown. Now it shows up in business. And in my relationships, I've like, oh, wow, this people pleasing thing is still here. But if I were still stuck in my body image grief of being afraid of how people would perceive my body, Body Image with Bri wouldn't exist. And my goal, every time I post, every time I show up, is that if one person can feel less alone in their own grief, then I've done my job.
Caitie: I want to highlight and underline so much of what you just said, I really think it's so beautiful to think about how, yeah, if one person is impacted by what I have to say, right now, that is enough. I think so many of us entrepreneurs get caught up in oh, I need to reach this many people, I need to hit this many likes, or this many followers and have my voice echoed to thousands of people in order to get the number of clients and sales I'm looking for. And to come back to that, you know, if I connect with one person, first of all, it logistically makes sense. Because if you connect with one person, of course, you will have success, and you will successfully help people and that one person is going to have a ripple effect on other people.
Just how powerful is it to change one person's life, whether or not that translates to metrics? And yeah, so I feel that's so important and beautiful. And the other thing you said that I wanted to touch on is how when you work on something in one area of your life, you realize you have to work on it everywhere else, I see that come up in my own life. With so many of my clients healing their relationship with food, they recognize, oh, after I heal my relationship with food, I realize I'm treating my relationship with my parents the same way or I'm treating my relationship with academics and work or career the same exact way as I was treating food.
When you do heal something in one area of your life, you recognize the ways in which that's actually spilling into everywhere else. And you do have another hill to climb in that sense.
Brianna: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's sometimes what makes the “journey” daunting of like, when do I get to arrive? Like when? When do I get to arrive where I no longer struggle with this thing? And the reality is, it's a little bit like, what's that game you would play at the carnival? Whack a mole? Is that like, when one thing pops up, and you whack it, something else is gonna pop up. And what I try to teach my clients, what I use myself, is that if I have the tools to work through all of these skills, all of these hurdles, it doesn't matter which one pops up, I have the skills to manage through.
Caitie: Yeah, that's really, that's really powerful and also really relieving to in a sense, because what I said at the end of my little tangent is like, Oh, I have another hill to climb. But also, it's like you actually have this new set of skills that you can now apply to another area of your life, you have this new toolbox that you can now apply to another area of your life. So when you see the people pleaser, or whatever it is, whatever pattern you're trying to break pop up into another area of your life, you can use that same toolbox. And yeah, I hit the whack a mole.
Brianna: Make no mistake, like, yeah, climbing the other hill sucks. When we've, you know, accomplished one thing, and then we're like, Okay, I've found peace with my relationship with food. But now I have to make peace with my relationship with my body, like nobody signed up for this, I thought it was gonna be for one deal. There's no mistaking that it is hard, that it is difficult. And that, to me, is the grief, that is the suck, that I encourage folks to sit with.
Because we don't need toxic positivity, we don’t need it to be like, but it's going to be worth it in the end. And maybe you'll help one other person who has been where you are. But when that, we call that in the grief, the finding meaning and purpose when you can find, if you can find meaning and purpose in your struggle, it is not a silver lining, it is not painting the situation with a brush of like, but at least bla bla bla. No, it is I've allowed myself to sit with the emotions. It sucks, then when I'm ready to utilize the tools that I have, or get tools to be able to work through it. And after I've been able to work through it, then I'm able to look back and say, Wow, now I have a new set of skills.
What can I do with that? Maybe that is help someone else? Maybe that is utilizing those skills in another area? Maybe it is oh, okay, well, you know what this was coming up in my relationship with food. But the reality is, it's because I have a hard time setting boundaries at work. And if I were to do that, then I would be able to, you know, have a more free relationship with food. It's interconnected.
Caitie: Yeah, that is one of the things I'm so thankful you've helped me learn. That's one thing that I have personally become better at doing as a clinician, because of what I've learned from you just being able to say, hey, this sucks. And I believe that some of the body image training I've gotten in the past and just counseling training in general, didn't underscore that enough, didn't emphasize the, hey, this really sucks, let's sit in the suck for a second. Just being able to pull some of my clients over in that way has been wildly helpful to me, as a clinician, and I really admire that about you.
I really admire the way that you are able to say, let's sit in the grief, let's sit in the suck. Let's acknowledge just how hard and brutal and messy this is. And also, you are able to be just such a whole and well rounded person. I feel that your content and what you're sharing with the world does this really beautiful job at saying let's sit in the suck, let's acknowledge the grief and also cheetah print and fun and New Jersey and coffee. Like this is what life is. And I really really love that about you.
Brianna: Thank you. And that's the point right? Is that it is both the suck and the joy. It is the food freedom and the food struggle, is the body acceptance and the body distress. The presence of one is evidence that the other can exist. It is not either or, and I think that especially from a diet culture mentality, we get stuck in believing that okay, well, I'm here and I have to get there. And if I don't get there, I'm doing it wrong.
What I'm saying is if you're not there, can we explore it? Can we look at it? Can we understand why it's here? Can we look at the information and eventually — not force — but after you've gone through the process, that's when you'll be able to look and see both sides of it. Nobody needs you to see both sides of it at the forefront.
Caitie: Yeah. How important is that too? Like okay, what if I am sitting in the suck and I want to also like slap a unicorn rainbow bandaid on it? Well, that might be really not helpful because that might not feel true to you at all. And we need to do what's feeling true to us right now. And so yes, sitting there pulling over, sitting in the grief and knowing that the presence of the other does exist and we don't have to shortcut or high speed train our way to it right now we can. We can stay here for a while and know that there's something on the other side.
Brianna: Yeah, your feelings don't care. Your feelings don't care whether or not you're going to pretend like it doesn't exist. Your body will feel what it feels. It's a lot like, we'll use the analogy of holding a beach ball underwater. And so you can hold the beach ball underwater, but it's effortful. And sometimes it is more effortful to pretend like it doesn't bother you than just acknowledging like, you know what, this feels really crappy. This isn't how I want to feel. But this is, this is how I feel. Yeah, and,
Caitie: Yeah, and, you know, Instagram, in the last couple of years has had a surge in body positive accounts and a lot of diverse bodies, living full lives. And it's not obviously the most abundant thing on there, but it exists. I feel like, what your account invites people to do is say, hey, this place of body positivity is possible, and you can get there and you can feel all of that. And if you're not there right now, that's okay. I see that pattern with a lot of my clients. I follow all these diverse bodies on Instagram, and I'm seeing a lot of inspiration, and I'm seeing what I want to feel but I'm not there yet. I feel really guilty about it. It's what you're saying about pushing the beach ball underwater. Is that kind of like trying to force yourself into body positivity without sitting in the grief first?
Brianna: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of how my page started, is there were a lot of diverse accounts that I followed. And there would be people who would say things like, I love my cellulite, and I love my jiggly thighs. And I love all of these parts of my body that I didn't, I hated those parts of my body. I think that if you're somebody who identifies with that, being able to love that, I cannot tell you that that doesn't exist, I can't tell you that that's not real for you. It just wasn't real for me. I felt like a bad body positive person, because it didn't feel that way.
So we'll toss around all these terms and like, okay, but body neutrality and, you know, body acceptance, and but at the core is I wanted to feel less distressed by my body, I wanted my body to take up less space in my brain. In order to do that, I had to achieve a level of neutrality. Guess what? You're never going to hate your body into neutrality. And so if I can't hate it into neutrality, and love feels impossible, I can accept my current reality. I can be kind to my body. I can check the way I speak and the way I act towards my body.
I just posted a video yesterday. One of the people I follow is a dancer and he was dancing with a woman in a wheelchair. And I thought it was so beautiful. And I caught myself. And I said, Why is that beautiful? But when you need a chair, because it hurts to stand, that is embarrassing? And so being able to build that awareness of hmm, there's a level of ableism in your body positivity, there is a level of fat phobia in your in my own Body Image with Bree. That's good information. And I can work with good information.
If you're not willing to be honest about your struggle about your own internalized hatred or fear of, we can't move forward. But I remember a time when I hated the way that my body looked. And that hatred also impacted the way that I felt about myself, and the way that I believe others perceive me, and then the actions that I took, because of it, I can tell you that I don't necessarily love the way that my body looks. But it no longer impacts the way I perceive myself no longer impacts my beliefs about myself and it no longer impacts my behaviors.
Caitie: Because you've gone through that body grieving process and at the end of grief is acceptance.
Brianna: And the end of grief right? And then there's, okay, well now I'm grieving my relationship movement that I used to be so strong and that I would love the praise that I got from my strong and abled body. And that now I am not and I am frustrated with that. I am in a new place in my grief. But instead of judging it, I can acknowledge it and say, Okay, there's some stories that I gotta learn here. There's some stories that I gotta unlearn here.
Caitie: Yeah, and I just, I can't even I can't say enough how much I really love the way you break down the grief framework and apply it to so many different things, apply it to grieving, the idea that you cannot control your body weight and shape. Grieving relationship with movement, grieving changes in your body, just taking those stages of grief that the denial, the bargaining, the sadness, all of it to acceptance.
There's so many lightbulb moments that happen for my clients, when they see that laid out in that way, I really believe that you are filling such a gap in the field right now by saying, hey, let's kind of slap this lens onto this and look slapping onto this, it's a it's a simple and structured thing yet also something that leaves so much room for the messiness and nuance and gray area that's necessary with all this stuff.
You're also filling a gap with business coaching right now. And I want to make sure we shift into that, because I personally had the privilege of doing a 90 minute session with you that was mind blowing for me, when I was at a very important transition period of my life, you know, you're also creating space for people in the helping professions to, to actually think about becoming sustainable CEOs, as independent women as independent people. My question for you is: What inspires you to take these unique approaches? You can talk a little bit more to the body image one if you want to. And also we can shift into the helper to CEO thing. What's this journey been like, realizing that, hey, like, no one's talking about these things in this way and I should probably start doing that. What's that been like, because I imagined that it was scary.
Brianna: Even you bringing it up, makes me want to throw up a little bit. But that's how I know that we're onto something good. And that if you are not being stretched, and in your life, if there is no tension or a little bit of that healthy, you stress, right, that anxiety, it means that you're complacent. If you always feel good at what you do, then there's room for growth, there's room to be stretched. This venture has been the most stretching I've ever done. But when I started Body Image with Bri, I said, I want to be the person that I needed at the height of my struggle, in the height of my grief, that if I remember searching on Instagram, like body image support group, and I didn't find anything.
So I created a group. And it was during the pandemic, I'm an accidental entrepreneur, my “consistent, reliable job” as a mental health counselor suddenly became unreliable, because I did children's counseling. Try it. I mean, adults don't like going on Zoom, try getting children to log on to zoom. The parents would be like, we'll make them! I'm sorry, you’re home. I can't get them to stay on. And I was very creative. There were some you know, that did. But my income suddenly shifted. And so I said, What do I have to lose? And I went all out and just said, Hey, I'm gonna launch a group. If anybody wants to join, you let me know. And my group filled up like that.
Now, what I can tell you now, is, it was not my amazing sales skills. It was priced way too low. And because I had nothing, I'd never offered something like that before. When the doors opened, people were like, yes. So I filled very quickly. And my success immediately was like, wow, this is great. I don't even mean my other job. But it still felt like an anxiety like, oh, I can't leave. And then the success started to dwindle. And the story started coming in.
And the narrative started playing out of like, see, this isn't reliable. This isn't a job that you can do, you need to have that consistency. And when I realized, holy crap, this is the same thing that I teach people and body image is that when those narratives come in, we have to actually assess is there merit to this? Is this true? Or Is there information being communicated to us?
What I can tell you now is looking back, I can say, Oh, well, you had a high saturation rate and a high ROI or return of investment, because you'd never offered anything before. And you soak up all your warmest leads, and now, now they're gone now. How do we sell to our newest leads? I had feelings about being salesy. I was like, Oh, how do I be ethical, and not in a capitalistic way. And what I can tell you now is that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. So I know that what I offer is aligned with integrity, you ask me, my core values, my core values, as a person, our compassion, and justice.
And in business, integrity is a really important value for me, that accessibility is important. And so I needed to find a creative way to be able to make money, but also be accessible. And so I was able to invest in a coach. And I realized, I filled in my own gaps, once again, when it came to the mindset of business. And so I became who I needed when I was starting my business.
Caitie: So that's what you know, that journey looks like for, in both ways, when you decided to take a unique lens to body image and exploring body image through grief. It was like, Well, this is what I would have needed at the height of my struggle, and then a different height of a different struggle was that transition from that job that wasn't fulfilling or gratifying or meeting your needs anymore to your own business. And it was like, Well, what would I have needed in this time? And that's what inspired you to create this group for individuals in the helping professions that want to create a more sustainable business?
Brianna: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a lot of times, especially. So, as helpers, right, especially folks in the dietetics, and eating disorder world, we've been taught this message that we are helpers, and we're not in it for the money. But guess what costs money?
Everything. I don't see people as money. I don't see like, Oh, yes, you know, Caitie, cha-ching, right? I see our relationship and I had to work through a financial hurdle. And I'll read it to you. Same framework I take with body image hurdles, I used an Enneagram Tool, and I'm sure we talked about the Enneagram. The helper, I am a helper by nature, but I am a helper by fault.
So the story I told myself was that I am more worthy when I am giving, and my reframe has been: healthy relationships are equal parts giving and receiving. I am so good at giving. I suck at receiving. It's not my forte. Another reframe I had to come up with is that it is right to be financially compensated for my time and energy, I realized I was becoming so resentful on Instagram, because I pour out all of this content for free. And then when I would share my prices, and people would say, that's not you know, that's not accessible. This, ain't it.
I realized what I was giving out of obligation, not because I actually genuinely wanted to.
Now, when I share, I share with purpose. I'm not just sharing on the app every day, because this is what the people want. I learned that like four weeks ago. I think I just shared recently, and depending on when people listen to this, I have my podcast, I had to decide, do I want to nurture my podcast? Or do I want to nurture my Instagram? And that was hard because I know that people love the Instagram, and they love the podcast. But I also have to take care of me.
Caitie: Yeah, and I just had a therapy session about this an hour ago, if we want to be transparent, like this idea of a healthy relationship is equal parts giving and receiving, I think so many of us who are in these types of professions go into them because we source a sense of worthiness from giving to people and that you're, again, like you said, your gift is being a giver and a helper and also, your fault is being a giver and a helper, like way too far on one end.
Brianna: Exactly. And so how do we advocate for ourselves? When it comes to body image? How do we advocate for ourselves when it comes to being entrepreneurs? And so I, from a body image perspective, we utilize this this terminology called reparenting, and it is advocating for the younger self who is at need. So if there's a body image need that comes up, adult Bri can come in and be like, Hey, we don't. That's not helpful. We don't talk that way anymore.
When something's happened in my business, and I start to spiral, coach Bri has to come in and be like, Hey, we got this. This is a problem, but we have the tools to get through it. Yeah. Is it a mindset? Or is it an actual problem? I would say 90% of it is mindset is how you approach it. If you approach it of like, that's it, you're doomed, like start looking on indeed go back to the quote unquote reliable job, because what we're entering into a “recession”. There is safety as a contract people!
My reliable job wasn't reliable when I needed it. The, most reliable thing in my life is me, that I know, I can put services out there, that I can advocate for myself, that I will pay me what I'm worth, and not gouge me, like a lot of these helping resources. Don't even get me started on some of these, like therapy apps of therapy is not affordable. They’re still gouging the therapist for their time and their labor?
Caitie: Yeah, I mean, I really like this, what you're speaking to of like, is this an actual problem or is this a mindset? It's like, so many times it is a mindset and I love what you talk about with impactful reframes often on your Instagram as well. It's like, impactful reframe is not toxic positivity, impactful reframe is not putting a unicorn bandaid on it. Impactful reframe is what's true. What is the truest thing I can latch on to right now that's gonna give me what I need to unstick what’s stuck and move forward a little bit differently a little bit more compassionately? Do you want to speak to that for a moment, that idea of impactful reframe?
Brianna: So let's take the financial reframes that I came up with. I believed the narrative that I am more worthy when I am giving. Now this is what I call the head to heart knowledge disconnect. In my head. I know that that's not true. I know that those that love me, love me regardless. But my heart didn't get the memo. The heart is like, wait a second, we love to give and you're good at giving. So how do we unlearn this message that my worth is tied to my giving?
When I create a reframe, and what I teach my clients to create reframes, is it has to match the intensity. And it can't just be the opposite of my worth is not connected to my giving. Okay, we've already established that my brain thinks that that's crap, like, or my heart thinks that that's crap. And so when I thought about, if I was advocating for someone that I loved, if I was advocating for a client, what would be a reframe that I know would be true, and would be tangible?
So what I advocate for is that we deserve a livable wage. And many of us in the helping profession do not have a livable wage. We are the only sector of business where it's like, you're not in it for the money. Nobody asks an accountant to lower their rates, it's your accountants, like you're doing a service, you get paid. But if if I set a rate that's similar to an accountant, it's like, oh, well, you're just said it for the money. I have to be the one that says no, Bri, you are worth your rate. That wasn't what I said, I read from us, it is okay to be financially compensated. It is okay to be financially compensated for my time and energy.
Caitie: Yeah, and that is, it's just again, one of the many, many reasons why you inspire me so much because you are an independent woman in the helping profession serving people so genuinely, and also allowing yourself to be financially compensated.
I have been told so many times by, unfortunately, mentors and teachers above me that I'm not in this for the money. And, you know, when I first connected with you, Bri, I was coming out of a major breakup and realizing that, you know, I no longer have the opportunity to marry into someone's health insurance. I am gonna have to pave my own way here and get my own health insurance and, you know, rely off of my business and I had been told by people above me that I actually, I need to find a man who has health insurance, because that's going to be the only way that I can provide for myself because I'm in the helping professions.
It's like, this sense of guilt comes up when you acknowledge that you're both a helper and a CEO. And I'm just curious if you have any more words of wisdom to speak to there when it comes to navigating that guilt and reframing impactfully that narrative that like we have to find someone else to something more stable in order to survive.
Brianna: God, it's just so patriarchal, I just can't like. Men! So here's what the advice that I would give. First of all, other people's relationship with money is not your relationship with money. So just because someone else says, but you need to have a job that has insurance, you need to have, you need to have stability, you need to have this, I 100% recognize my privilege, and being able to embrace entrepreneurship, because I have a roommate whose name is Dad.
But I pay my fair share, I pay my rent. And when I was in my “secure job”, I never knew how I was going to be able to climb out of the ladder of the nine to five or the reality of the nine to nine. One on one work. Unless I was charging my rate, which you paid! My intensive rate is not low. It would be hard to find somebody who would want to pay that every week for twenty, thirty, hour sessions. That's what we do when it’s one to one. So I had to find a different model that could sustain me. But if I don't have a partner, if I don't have a cushy reliable, you know, rich husband, which universe I'm still happy for you to send. No problem, invitation, welcome! I want to be reliable on me. And my ability to say, I have a gift in this world. And that gift can help many people. And that gift is worth compensation.
That's hard. That is hard. I mean, I see the deep breath you take. Opposite to everything we've been taught. We have been taught to help. And guess what? This podcast, I'm assuming, is free. We're doing free labor right now. Between us, and like greedy, capitalistic, you know, whether it be like MLM, whatever. Yeah. We give you the information for free. You are paying to be in the room with me. Information, everything I put on my Instagram. If you were really dedicated, you sat on my Instagram, you took notes. I give away everything for free. That's another thing right? Don't give away all your stuff for free. Now that's- can I curse?
Brianna: That is bullshit. That is some scarcity bullshit. And if you decided to listen to this episode. I always say we call it like a litmus test of like, you can tell what I'm learning in that time when I like listen to a podcast. Yeah, I'm listening to the book Rising Strong by Brene Brown, which I will acknowledge off the top of my head that I know that Brene has some problematic things, especially when it comes to fat phobia. I still believe in universe again. There we go. I would like to have that conversation with her. Our work is so similar. We can't talk about who has heard about body image if we don't talk about chain. Business, if we don't talk about chain.
Caitie: I just got full body chills. I feel like it's gonna happen.
Brianna: She says in the book — are you ready for this one? The opposite of scarcity is not abundance. Te opposite of scarcity is enough. The opposite of scarcity is not abundance — the opposite of scarcity is enough. I don't need to have all of the clients in the world. I just need to have enough.
Caitie: It's so good. That's so good. And I I mean, that's one of the ways you're filling a gap, Bri, because there's so many business coaches that are like, abundance mindset, abundance mindset, abundance! From zero to one million in a month.
Brianna: What does that even mean? I am never going to be- that’s the same with body positivity. I am never going to be the person that's like, I love my cellulite. I'm never going to be the coach that's like you should be a billionaire. Every person is going to come with their own goals. Can I help you meet those goals? And can I help you move through the mindset things that you're struggling with? It's the same skill set, a different audience.
Caitie: Yeah. Oh, so good. So good. I feel like this is such a cool episode, because so many people that are going through that body grief process are gonna benefit from listening to this, and also so many entrepreneurs and then also so many people who are experiencing both.
I can talk to you all damn day. So I do want to make sure I transition mindfully to the end of our conversation. But also just say that I'm going to be thinking about that all day, like the opposite of abundance, or the opposite of scarcity is not abundance, it's enough. I don’t need- you know, a rich partner can still openly come to me if he has the same values as me and all of that. But also, I don't need that. I don't need that. I need enough and there is enough, and I have enough and I am enough, and I just need to tap into the impactful reframes. They're gonna help me access that enoughness.
In terms of giving away information for free, it's something I'm working with right now to is we're not. Our job is not to spit facts out at people, it's to hold space for people to heal. And so that's what they're paying for is the space to heal. And you can give the facts away for free.
Brianna: I don't worry, like, that's a scarcity mindset. It's like, Oh, my God, everything for free, then you're gonna go and take and guess what, there have been people who I've seen, take my information and repeat it as their own. It doesn't bother me one iota. I am confident that you're not doing what I do. You can access the information, and not credit me that's I don't, it doesn't faze me. I know other people get upset. But because I know and I believe that what I do in the room is so powerful so, meaningful. I've seen the transition, not only with my clients, but with myself. That, sure, if it's going to help somebody go for it.
Caitie: Yeah. Oh my god. Huge, huge round of applause for that one. That's amazing. I mean, I see also so much just having us on social too, with like, oh, this person took this thing that this person said, and it's like, well, what's the point of going down that rabbit hole? No one is you and also like, credit peep! Credit creators, like all, like you should.
Brianna: If I wanted to, right, like, could we? You know, yes, but for me, that's not where my energy is, right? It's just, it's not. That's not how I want to show up.
Caitie: Yeah. And for a beautiful reason. That's not where your energy's going. And it's like, of course, a nuanced conversation. I just love acknowledging that it's everything. But like, Yeah, that's so that's so meaningful, like, no one is going to be you and how cool that someone is inspired by what you're saying, they should credit you. And also you are, you're so secure in your enoughness that that's not where you're gonna spend your energy. So that's really beautiful.
Brianna: I'd love to invite your listeners that whether, you know the body image, whether the business, whether all of it resonates with you, I want you to think about where you are right now. And where you'd like to be. If you were living out in alignment to your values, does that mean that you'd be leaving your full time job? Does that mean that you would be going on that vacation regardless of whether or not your body size is acceptable to society?
Whatever that looks like, we need to start visioning, we need to start dreaming of possibility and figuring out what tangible steps do I need to take to get there? It might not be coaching, but it might. It might start with listening to this podcast episode. It might be picking up Rising Strong by Brene. Brown. Yeah. But it also might be doing something out of the ordinary and saying, I know where I want to get to. And I think that this is a person who's going to be able to help me get there.
Caitie: Yeah, I always provide at the end of all the episodes a processing prompt, just like, I don't like calling it a journal prompt, because you don't have to do it in the journal if you don't want to feel like that was a really beautiful processing prompts that you just left everyone with. So thank you.
Brianna: You're welcome.
Caitie: And with that, I also love to ask as we're wrapping up, you know, I'm obsessed with like little tiny self care practices that can turn the energy around in a moment. I'm obsessed with little rituals and routines and of like reclaiming the idea of like the morning routine from the sparkly tick tock and I would love to know, Bri, are there any routines or rituals that inspire you in the morning? Any routines and rituals that grounds you before bed with the caveat that these things never happen every single day?
Brianna: Yes, yeah. For me, one of the biggest things around you know, I like the idea of the ritual is the permission, because especially in my disordered and dieting days, there wasn't a lot of permission, it was very, like you have to do this. But instead of it being an obligation, it's an invitation.
So I have created a space in my room that upon waking up, I can roll out my yoga mat. And even if I'm not doing a full, you know, yoga practice, if I just do a couple of stretches before I come and sit for a couple hours, and I know my hips are gonna hurt. And my favorite part about that is that my furry feline, and the only man I ever need in life, loves to join me in morning stretches. And he's very cute.
Caitie: Oh, that's so I animals are so grounding.
Brianna: Oh, we don’t deserve them.
Caitie: I could do another podcast about that as well. And, you know, in the evening, what helps you get grounded? And how do you, I mean, especially as someone in the helping professions is holding space for people all day, how do you release at the end of the day?
Brianna: I will tell you that in full transparency, it's still something that I'm working on. It’s where my mindset of the helper to CEO, I am still recovering from years of burnout. So I just told my therapist, before I hopped on this call, I am not very good at hobbies, like I'm really good at working. It's really hard for me at the end of the day to stop, which then disrupts my evening ritual.
So I was on the tick-tock yesterday. And someone talked about an eve, like an end of work ritual, right? Of how do you end your work day into a new mindset, a new flow. Anybody that's that's struggling with that, I recommend taking some time off of work, like no working, like not, and I say no working but with permission. Like I did a little bit of work.
But taking a week of vacation, where I didn't have any client calls, or I got to be able to reconnect, I was able to realize, well, you know, what really makes me happy. I love reading, but I don't. And because I struggle with it — hashtag ADHD — and so listening to audio, audio, Audible books, like audio, audio version books, I've really enjoyed that as part of like a nighttime routine. And so I'll fall asleep, listening to a book, it's very soothing.
Caitie: Ah, I love that. I think that's really good. I love to also give experiments to people at the end of the show too, and this experiment you're describing is like, take some time off when you can and see what you naturally gravitate towards. And then ask yourself, How can I incorporate that into my daily life?
Like when I have the spaciousness, where does my brain want to go when it has full autonomy? And then why can't that be part of every day? Something I struggle with too, is like when it's a workday. It's a full blown workday. And then when it's vacation, it’s a full blown vacation, it's black and white.
Brianna: We're so similar. And then and then I'll share quickly, it's like, so one of the things I enjoy doing is crafting. I like being creative. I feel like I get to do that in my business. I love working with other people's businesses and being like, Oh, you could do this, this and this. So but then when I'm working on my frickin cricket, and it doesn't work the way that I wanted it to, then I'm frustrated.
I'm like, this was a waste of time, because I had a beautiful plan. And that plan was ruined and I don't like when things fail. Again it's part of the process, being okay with the messiness of the process. I'm like Wow, all of the lessons just keep coming, even in the hobbies.
Caitie: Yeah. The lessons keep coming, the where else can I take away my people pleaser mindset keeps coming full circle love when this happens. Thank you so much for your time. You're such a pleasure. I am so glad we got to have this conversation and I'm so excited for people to hear it really soon.
Brianna: Me too thank you so much, Katie. I really appreciate it.