How to Stop Living For The Weekend: Tools for Feeling More Alive Every Day

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Things We Dive Into In This Episode:

1. Embracing the inevitable mess of life

2. The difference between contrived community and true community

3. Cultivating authentic connections on wellness retreats

   
   

📘Resources

• Whole, Full, & Alive Retreat in Portugal

• Full Soul Nutrition Membership

Thanks for listening! 💖 Stay tuned to my website for more episode updates and other exciting programs and resources.

Transcript

Caitie: Rather than saying what's wrong with me, it's more what's wrong with the system that I'm trying to assimilate to that maybe doesn't work for me. Not what's wrong with me that I can't get this done. It's more like what's wrong with the sort of template or the spreadsheet that I'm trying to force myself into that just wasn't meant for this human brain or this human body or this human soul.

Hi, welcome back to another episode of Whole, Full, and Alive, the podcast that was initially about the art and science of falling in love with your life and then became about how to feed yourself, heal yourself, and be yourself. And now is evolving into, I don't know, a different mission statement.

A mission statement that kind of combines the previous two mission statements into one. And I haven't figured it out yet. What I know for sure is that we're gonna talk a lot about sitting in the mess of life. Sitting in the mess of life and still maintaining our capacity for joy and presence and feeling good and alive. And I know we're gonna talk about

the fact that we never really arrive in life. We don't really get to a point where it's all figured out and we're like set and we've graduated and we've got our happy ending. But that doesn't mean life isn't worth living. It's worth it to keep going every single day and to keep staying and leaning into joy and leaning into every moment and leaning into all of the lessons. I know that's what we're gonna talk about. So anyway.

I've been gone for a while. I've been gone since November. It's been almost six months since I've gotten on a podcast microphone. I think part of the reason for that is because I've had some difficulty showing up in my own sort of mission. Like I just said, I want to talk about how do we sit in the mess. I just said I want to talk about how do we keep showing up.

even though we never arrive, even though it's never gonna be perfect, even though there's never gonna be a moment where it's all sorted. And I think I was waiting for a moment where things were gonna be all sorted and then I would come back to the podcast. I think I was waiting for a moment where I was gonna like have the new mission statement distilled and then I would come back to the podcast. And ironically, what I've realized is that I'm going against the values and mission statement of my own podcast by waiting. So I'm here today.

Tuesday, April 22nd, 3.50 p.m. Coming to you from London, a place I have lived for exactly two months now. Maybe I'll tell you more about that. And I've brought my bestie with me today on the show. I've brought my full-soul nutrition operations manager and also my personal life operations manager pretty much, Nicole Garfunkel. She is here to reopen the podcast with me and we're gonna dive right in talking about this idea of sitting with the mess and why it's important to do it and how we can really step into a more liberated and alive life if we do it. How's that intro feeling for you Nicole? That's great, I actually have lots of thoughts. You wanna share that?

Welcome back. 

Nicole: Thank you. Welcome back to you. Actually, I think something that I've been thinking about a lot in my own life is the fact that we never arrive like you were saying, and there have been so many moments in my life where I've been working towards something like a goal or like wanting to achieve something in my life. And I get to those places and I get the thing and then I have it and I'm like, okay, now what? Like this isn't what I thought it was gonna be.

And I just feel like I've been in this perpetual state of reaching for goals, getting the goal, and then not being happy once I have the goal and it not being what I wanted it to be, what I expected it to be. And so I feel like one of the things I'm working on in my life is contentment and like being okay with the fact that like things are going to evolve and change. But along the way, as I'm working towards goals, I don't want to be miserable and hate my life because I know that sometimes when I get to the goal, I might not even want that anymore. 

Caitie: Yeah. Yeah. I've been saying a lot lately to clients and to myself that we create our feelings. We don't create our fate. And if we associate an outcome with the feelings that we want to have, if we're like, okay, I'm not going to be able to feel content or happy or whole or confident until I have this certain outcome, will always kind of be chasing the next outcome because the feelings we want, the contentment, the confidence, the peace, the love, aren't necessarily associated with things turning out a certain way. We need to create the feelings we desire in the circumstances that we're in right now, understanding that it's creating the feelings that will bring us towards the things that we want rather than trying to just like rigidly white-knuckle grip onto it has to turn out this way in order for me to feel content. It's actually true that we can create the feeling of contentment within the current circumstances. That's all we really ever can do. Does that resonate with you?

Nicole: Yeah, and also it just reminds me this idea of living for the weekend, which is something that I used to do before I became a full-time entrepreneur. And I am finding myself now kind of doing the same thing, not living for the weekend, but like living for the thing that I'm wanting in my life, like the goals that I don't have yet. And that just makes your life pass you by. And that's just not a way that I personally want to live my life. But it is very difficult to actually lean into that.

But I know that we're going to talk about some tools today that could actually help with that process. 

Caitie: I actually really love what you said, living for the weekend, because I feel like there's a lot of people who understand exactly what that means. It's one of those really sort of like shared human experiences that a lot of people who work in a typical corporate structure, like really understand the feeling of like, okay, got to make it through another week, got to get to the weekend reset the cycle, make it through another week, get to the weekend. it kind of ends up being a metaphor for the way so many of us live life. It's like we are sort of just waiting for the next finish line to be crossed before we give ourselves permission to be content. And we're waiting for the next thing, the next boyfriend, the next job, the next pay increase the next whatever it is before we allow ourselves permission to like lean in and feel good. And so yeah, I think some people might feel like they're literally living for the weekend right now in terms of their job and the way their Monday through Friday goes. But I bet even a lot more people feel like on a wider scale of their life, metaphorically, they're living for the weekend. They're living for some arbitrary moment in the future where they're finally gonna give themselves permission to slow down, relax, and let go, and lean in. And I think feeling wholeful and alive is about getting yourself to a place where you stop living for the weekend. So how do we stop living for this arbitrary benchmark moment?

Where we feel like things are gonna be sorted and we finally have permission to have fun, whether that's the weekend or some other point in our life that we feel like we're always kind of just like waiting for and working towards. I think there's three ways to do this. So I'm gonna share them with you, Nicole, and I wanna hear what they spark for you. The first thing I think we need to do to really feel fully alive on the regular, lean into our lives on the regular, not just in these special moments or the weekend moments, is that we have to increase our tolerance for sitting with mess. I say to clients a lot, we need to let the laundry basket fill. We need to not feel like we need to have like every little task done and every little assignment ticked and every little box ticked before we're allowed to relax. Like if we can't allow there to be an overflowing laundry basket sometimes, if we can't allow there to be dishes in the sink sometimes before we're allowed to have fun, we're never gonna be allowed to have fun because there's always gonna be some laundry basket. There's always gonna be some dishes, literally or metaphorically. I love how this entire podcast is like literal and metaphorical.

And I've been noticing a lot lately that I'm like, I have to answer every single text in my phone before I'm allowed to feel like I'm a good friend. And let's be clear, I'm not answering every text in my phone because that would be literally impossible. So I've been walking around with this feeling for the last two weeks of like, my God, I'm not a good friend. Cause I haven't answered all of my text messages. And I've also been feeling a lot of like, so I just moved into a new flat.

And there's so many things that we haven't like sorted out yet. Like we haven't figured out exactly where everything's gonna go. We don't have like all of our appliances yet and we have to like get a new couch. And I'm like, my gosh, I should be spending every little ounce of like free time I have trying to sort out the flat because I'll never be able to relax in the home until it's perfect, until everything's like all together. And I'm realizing that my own intolerance for sitting in mess is preventing me from enjoying this very moment of my life. What do you think? 

Nicole: Well, I feel like we maybe deal with it differently because I feel like when I have mess, I just avoid it. And I don't think that's good either. think like with the text, for example, I'll just be like, I'm not going to go on my phone then. I know I have a million texts to answer, but like I'm to do all these other things besides do that because it's just like too much for me to even like think about doing it. Yeah. But maybe it seems like you think about it more than I do. 

Caitie: Yeah. But I think in the same way, you're also not really sitting with it because you're avoiding it. So I feel like I need to increase my tolerance for sitting with the mess in the sense that like, yeah, I need to stop trying to put out the fire the second that I see it. And you need to like not pretend the fire isn't there. And you need to like look at it and be like, yeah, it's there and I'm not going to do it. Like, I'm not going to answer the texts and I'm also going to acknowledge that I'm not answering the text. Does that make sense? Yeah, because it's like, oh, well, if I don't even look at it, then it's not a problem. Yeah. Whereas I'm like always staring at it with like a microscope being like, oh, look at all of these messes. I'm not cleaning up. This is terrible. I'm not allowed to enjoy. You're like okay, let me like build a wall between me and the mess. And it's like, it's not even there. And, but we both are sort of dealing with the same problem. It's just that we're doing different styles of maladaptive coping. So yeah, it's like, what's your style of avoiding the mess? Is it that you pretend it's not there or it's that you like get really anxious about the fact that it is there. And in either case, yeah, what advice would you give to me?

Nicole: Well, it's funny because I was just thinking about like physical messes too, and the way that like my closet looks like a mess. Yeah. But like everything in my room that you can see looks tidy, but I just shove it all in there. So like that's me like avoiding the mess in a physical way. So for you. Oh, gosh. I mean, I don't want to tell you to avoid it. I don't want to tell you to shove everything in the closet, but maybe like kind of a little bit of that, though, because it seems like a lot of your brain space is taken up by looking at it. So how can you look at it for only a bit? Give yourself a limit to how long you can inspect with the microscope and then kind of let go. It's funny because it's literally the exact opposite for you. You need to look at it a little bit more.

but just like not too much. That's what I always struggle with with like literally anything. It's like the balance between the middle, like the gray area of it. Cause it's so easy to swing either way. 

Caitie: Yeah. Well, all of these tools that we're going to talk about today, like how to stop living for the weekend, none of them are going to be extreme. All of them are going to be gray area. And so they're all going to have sort of this like art to them of, the first one is like, let the laundry basket fill, right? But we're never saying never do the laundry again in your life. It's like, do the laundry, but don't do it 5,000 times a day. Don't do it every time one singular sock is in the bin. Don't do it, you know, don't even like feel like you need to do it like twice a week. Like maybe you just do it on like one day of the week. And that's the gray area, I think, right? I think the laundry basket is the perfect metaphor because we're never saying, don't do the laundry at all, but let it fill up a little bit more. Let the mess sit a little bit more and realize that the mess doesn't have to be cleaned up before you can decide that you're worthy of enjoying your life. And in my case with the text messages too, let the text sit and acknowledge that I can still be a good friend even if I don't get back right away.

Nicole: Yeah. And I also I find too, like when I sometimes will like schedule time on my calendar to like do these things that make me feel stressed, I'll like over schedule it. So like my messages, for example, I have a block on my calendar every morning to review like text, whether it be like work text, front text, whatever. But I think having it every day is still too much. So it's like, OK, like how can you schedule it in a way that still doesn't feel overwhelming? 

Caitie: Yeah. Yeah. And the only way we can figure this stuff out is by like doing it and seeing what doesn't work, which I hate. I'm always wanting to get around that. I'm always wanting to know what the perfect system is before actually trying the system and seeing that it fails. This is my thing with social media right now. I am wanting to share more on social media. I'm wanting to share more of like what I do with clients online. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to find the schedule where I post like Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or like I make all my content on Mondays and I'm noticing that that system just straight up isn't working for me I'm going to have to figure out a new one. But the only way I would have known that it wasn't working was by trying and by letting it be really fucking messy and letting it go over horribly so that I have to change it. And like that's what happened with your text. Like, yeah, you actually can't check them every morning. 

Nicole: Right. And it's so funny. I was actually talking to someone about this yesterday and she was like, you know, I'm just one of those people who has to like try things before I figure out what works. And I literally responded and was like, I think everyone's like that. You have to try things before you figure out if it like actually works for you. There's no way to get around that. Like you can't just try every single thing and every single time it's gonna work perfectly. That's just not how life works. But we have this expectation that we're gonna like decide something. And it's like, yes, this is it. This is the path forward. But I think that's the same thing I was talking about before of like, you decide you want this thing in life and then you get there and you're like, actually, maybe I don't. Like, maybe it's different than I thought. Maybe it's going to pan out differently. 

Caitie: Yeah. And I think that we're kind of taught that we could follow this sort of like rubric to life and it's going to work for you. Or you could follow this like step by step guide and life is just going to flow like a spreadsheet. But I always say like, life doesn't flow like a spreadsheet. Life flows more like a river. And you can't actually predict which boulders and sticks and weather conditions the river is going to hit while it's flowing to the ocean or whatever. It's going to like wind and turn and it's it isn't going to flow like a spreadsheet. isn't going to flow like this perfectly predictable thing that corporate America or academia in America often tells us it's going to it's going to flow like. So yeah, I feel like that's a good place to wrap up with the sitting with the mess. What do you think? 

Nicole: Yeah, well, it also just made me think that like in so many areas of life, right? Like with school, with work, your career path, like the way that you build your family, like what we see on social, like people just say like, here's what you can do. But we see that and take it as like, oh, well, this is obviously the only option. So I have to do what they're doing. But we have to kind of figure these things out for ourselves along the way and give ourselves compassion as we're doing that. That's the problem. We're not giving ourselves any compassion. We're just like, well, it's not working the way you thought. Well, then you're obviously not successful or you're a bad friend or whatever other negative thing we're saying about ourselves. 

Caitie: Yeah, I mean, a good place to cap that too is like rather than saying what's wrong with me, it's more what's wrong with the system that I'm trying to assimilate to that maybe doesn't work for me, not what's wrong with me that I can't get this done. It's more like what's wrong with the sort of template or the spreadsheet that I'm trying to force myself into that just wasn't meant for this human brain or this human body or this human soul.

Yeah, I that. So the second thing I put for like how to stop living for the weekend, how to feel more whole and alive in your day to day is to stop avoiding emotions. And I feel like so much of the reason why we can't drop into our day to day, why we struggle to be present in our day to day. And I say we like I'm speaking for the entire world. One of the reasons why I can't drop into my day to day sometimes is because I am stuffing down something that I don't want to feel. And if you know me and you do know me, I am a very deeply feeling person. So the fact that I sometimes struggle with this means that there must be a lot of people who are just feeling it like to the nth degree, like a fucking elephant of emotions, weighing them down on a regular basis. I would say the avoided emotions that weigh me down on regular basis are probably like the size of like a human body. But I know that there's a lot of people who push down the amount of emotions that weigh like two US tons. And when we do that, when we're constantly like circling the drain and like circling around feeling something that we don't really want to feel, we block the positive emotions. We block the feel good emotions because we can't selectively numb our emotions. 

So when we're avoiding feeling grief about something or avoiding feeling anger about something or I know personally when I am avoiding grief, in a transition, which is exactly what's happening to me right now. I'm going through this like massive transition phase in my life where I am going to permanently live in the UK away from my family. I'm permanently changing my business from what it used to be to what it is now. I'm like permanently stepping into like a new chapter of life. And there's a lot of grief that comes with it for as much joy comes with it. There's also grief. And because I've been sort of like selectively numbing the grief of it, I'm preventing myself from leaning into the joy of it. Because when we numb one side of the coin, we numb the other side of the coin. And so I know what I need to do personally in this chapter, in this moment, on this Tuesday is give myself some time to just like cry about the fact that I'm going to live across the ocean from my brothers like for the rest of my life. And it's not a bad thing. I love that I'm creating a life and a family and like something really amazing here in the UK with my partner. And also there's like a lot of grief that I've been avoiding that's been preventing me from feeling the most alive I can feel. 

Nicole: Yeah, and I feel that even like in the day to day to not necessarily just like the big moments. So like, you know this about me. And obviously from my answer to the last question, I'm just an avoidant person. That's like my brand of cope. So I definitely avoid the negative emotions and I find that it makes it really hard for me to like enjoy my day today because I obviously can't feel the positive things as well. But it's like, okay, like I don't want to like have to schedule everything in because that just feels a little rigid. But it's like, how do you put yourself in the spaces and like do the groups and like find the people who are going to help you create safe spaces to feel in those small micro doses if it is really overwhelming to feel it in a big way. That's something that I have found very helpful for me in expressing my emotions. And also just like, because I'm avoidant about it, it feels scary to get emotional because it's like, well, if I get emotional, like in the middle of my workday, like the whole day is ruined. And like, sure, there might be like, it might take me an hour or two to really get out of it. But more often than not, when I feel it, I'm able to move forward way easier than if I didn't. 

Caitie: Yeah. I appreciate that you said it feels scary because that's the problem that so many people run into when they want to become more of a emotionally balanced and deeply feeling and alive person is like, there's this feeling of fear of if I start feeling this, I'm never going to stop feeling this. And it's always the numb place that we get stuck in, not in the feeling place, but that's really difficult to explain to someone who has been avoiding properly feeling their feelings for a long time. so what we do need is the spaces where we can like practice sort of like microdosing feeling where we feel safe to emote and where we have other people who are there kind of either feeling along with us or supporting us and holding space for us. And the term holding space makes so many people's skin crawl, but that's really the essence of it is actually creating an environment where someone who's scared to feel like you feel safe to feel. And I'm not trying to speak from a holier than now place. I once was afraid to feel emotions that I'm now not afraid to feel.

But I can't really remember when that transition occurred for me. Do you remember when you had like the first experience of like feeling safe to like let an emotion sort of flow in like a group or something? 

Nicole: I mean, I think it started more with individual people for me, like with you. I've always felt comfortable sharing things with you. And the more that I did that, the more I was like, if I share these things that feel like so like big to me, to other people and they're just like, yeah, I get it. I feel you too. It's like, whoa, I'm not the only one that feels this thing. I think it's more just being witnessed in it, not necessarily like it is you're holding space, but I think there's witnessing as well. I think that's maybe another good way to say it. But I think with groups, it took me a bit longer to get comfortable with that idea because again, it's like very vulnerable to be witnessed by one person let alone like five, 10, 15, 20, et cetera. But I feel like I wasn't really able to do that until I actually started going to therapy as well. Because again, I just kept getting more exposure to more people who I felt comfortable with on one on one basis. And then once I could do that, it just grew from there.

Caitie: Yeah, I was just gently Googling something on the side because I remember in my somatic breathwork training, I'm like a trained somatic breathwork facilitator and we learned the definition of holding space in that training and obviously didn't stick completely in my brain. Otherwise, I wouldn't have had to Google it. But it is about being a non-judgmental witness. Like that's what it is.

It's like being a non-judgmental witness to someone without trying to fix their problem. And that's the key is like that you're witnessing the person without trying to fix the person because nothing feels worse than when you're like telling someone how you're feeling about something or you're emoting around them and they're like, I don't know, don't feel that way. It's fine. Like everything's okay. Or like,

well, why are you feeling like that? Like that's no, it doesn't make any sense. Like everything's fine. Like this is logical. that's like the opposite of holding space. That's like the opposite of nonjudgmental witness. That's like someone trying to like do what we said in the first thing, which is like having no tolerance for the mess. Like they're trying to put out the fire as soon as they see it. They're trying to clear the laundry basket as soon as a single sock goes in there. And I think so many of us have been around so many people who don't have the tolerance for like sitting with that mess that we at some point learned that it wasn't okay to just emote and like, yeah, just someone just sees us and it's like, okay, cool. Like I'm just here. 

Nicole: Yeah. And something that I appreciate about you and you've obviously had a lot of training on this is that like when I come to you about something, you always ask me what I need. You say, do you want me to just sit here and you can talk at me or do you want advice? Like what do you need in this moment? And I think the more exposure I've had to experiences like that too, like that makes it even safer to share because you're not worried like, my God, how are people gonna react? It's like if the expectation upfront is that there is no reaction, I'm just like here for you, then I think people feel more comfortable but not everyone has the language and the knowledge around doing that. 

Caitie: Yeah, yeah, not everyone, obviously not everyone is a trained counselor, but also like not everyone has sat with their own emotions enough to have like tolerance for yours. especially men and especially most heterosexual men. so there is that tendency of like, yeah, let's put out the fire as soon as we see it. And most of the time it is coming from like the most sincerely loving place of just wanting the other person to feel better and feel good, not realizing that it actually helps other person feel better and feel good if you just let the waves of their emotion like peak and crash. And I think crucially, we have to hold space for ourselves too to let our emotions peak and crash. And obviously with other people, like Nicole said, that's kind of like where you can start to become more comfortable with your emotions and someone will help you feel safe in them. But ideally we can hold space for ourselves to feel and to ventilate our emotions and to trust that our bodies are these like feeling machines that are designed to like have our emotions come up and through and out of us. And they will and they can pass. And if you feel like they're not passing, that is obviously a sign to work with a counselor, work with a supportive person who is trained to help you get those emotions to pass and to join a group like our Full-Sol Nutrition membership where we all kind of witness each other on a weekly basis or come on our retreat as well. Let me just plug everything in this moment. What do you think? 

Nicole: Yeah, definitely. mean, I would say group spaces have been the most healing for me. Obviously, they've been the most scary for someone like me, but they've been the most healing. And I think if you let yourself unfold in those kinds of settings, it can really teach you a lot about yourself and also teach you that you can survive feeling really deep emotions and feeling witnessed and like the most shameful places of your brain and you're not gonna die if you share, which I know is like how it feels sometimes to share. It's like literally the world's gonna crash down around me if I share this thing that I've been thinking or feeling, but it won't. It really won't. And something else I was thinking too as you were talking is that something that I think prevents me from feeling my emotions sometimes is that I'm like, I haven't done enough today to deserve the time to journal or do a workout that might bring up emotions because sometimes workouts do that. yeah, like a reminder even for me is like, I don't need to do anything to deserve the time to take care of myself and to process my experience. 

Caitie: Yeah, that's a really creative form of avoidance that is enforced by capitalism. It's like, yeah, like it's like, OK, I can tell myself I haven't done enough today to deserve to lean into and feel my emotions. And the world around me is going to support that narrative because we live in a super capitalistic, hyper productivity focused world where we have to take a certain amount of boxes in order to like be deemed worthy for the day. So it's hard. It's hard to justify just taking space to be like, how am I feeling? And like, it can also feel like cheesy and ridiculous to do it as well. Like, come on, like just get on with it. Like, you know, just pick yourself up off the ground and keep moving forward. Like you've got this, you're good, you're fine. but it isn't about like doing a soap opera or a five act play on your life every night. It's just about checking in, just about feeling into your body a little bit more and kind of getting some of the clutter and the gunk out so that you can feel more deeply the other side of the coin. If anything, just let processing any of your sadness, any of your shame, any of your anger be a tool for accessing more joy.

There's other reasons why it's helpful to come to deeper understanding about yourself, heal things and whatever, but just remember if anything, it's gonna give you that access to more joy. And I love that you mentioned group settings because I think that's actually the reason why I have felt so comfortable emoting for a while is because I've had exposure to group support sessions for a really long time. Like I was in eating disorder treatment when I was really young. And in some ways, one of the gifts of that really difficult experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone is that I had to talk to groups about what I was going through at 15. And I also did, you know, Al-Anon when I was really young because I had a family member struggling with alcohol addiction and like didn't know what else to do. So went to like an Al-Anon meeting when I was a teenager. And I really do feel like those unfortunate experiences were some of the greatest gifts that helped me be more comfortable expressing myself to people. But another reason I love that you brought up groups is because the third tool to stop living for the weekend and to feel more whole full and alive on a regular basis, I think is leaning into other people and community and connection and in like the most real way, like in the most raw, honest, authentic, spontaneous way. 

So not in like this, I'm starting to see like community is becoming diet culture a little bit. And you might not be as plugged into this as me, you can tell me what you think, but I'm seeing that people are taking the idea of like developing community and turning it into a commodity somehow. I'm like, how did we do this? Like, how did this happen? And maybe it's because I lived in Lisbon for a little bit, which is starting to unfortunately become a little bubble of like a lot of like influencers and like not the best kind of like new agey sort of like wellness people that are like, yeah, I just want community and like it's also just like community is turning into like, hey, can you repost me? And like, hey, can you like, you know, do this thing for my business? And like, it's becoming very transaction-y. And that's how I feel like some of the essence of like genuinely connecting with people is getting lost. Can you see any other ways that like the essence of like genuine connection is getting lost? 

Nicole: Well, I will say, I think like, because I've also been in many groups in the past few years and also having run our retreat, have witnessed what a really amazing group can look like. I just think that a lot of them lack the vulnerability that they say they have. I feel like it feels to me like it takes me back to being in a conference room in corporate America and you have to go around the room and do an icebreaker that tells everyone pretty much nothing about you. It's just like, what's your favorite snack or something stupid like that. And I'm like, well, I didn't learn anything really about you besides that you like to eat chips. Like, I don't feel like we're closer now. So I think there's just a lack of vulnerability there, which is what you need in a successful group, in my opinion. 

Caitie: Yeah. Yeah, you're exactly right. It is contrived vulnerability rather than like actual vulnerability. I think people are starting to like I keep saying diet culture, but what I really mean is like, they're trying to like turn vulnerability into like a commodity and like using the word vulnerability to sell. And then you get into the group and people aren't actually being authentic. People aren't actually being who they say they are. This is happening a lot on social media. So I suppose that we could also just kind of point to social media and performative sort of like branding yourself as one of the things that's also making people lose touch with what it means to really be connected to someone. And something I really, really value in my work and in the groups that I lead is like trying to be a human also. It's not always easy for me to straddle this line of like being genuinely connected to my clients on a personal level and also being my client's leader and spaceholder and provider, it's really challenging, but I wouldn't trade it for anything because I feel like what it allows me to do is be a real human and not feel like I have to show up on my stories with like my hair like perfectly brushed and like not feeling like I'm not allowed to process and learn from my mistakes and like I'm not allowed to learn out loud and like I'm I don't want to hold myself to these arbitrary bullshit standards that if we keep trying to meet them are the exact things that keep us feeling like we have to live for the weekend, right? So I feel like when we can actually be vulnerable, what it actually feels like is you're not trying, you're just being.

Nicole: Yeah, exactly. And that's where I think you can tell the difference between like a stiff group versus like people who are actually sharing. And something that I've found like very meaningful like in my life and also in my career is like because I help facilitate our retreats and our groups and things like I kind of also straddle that line a little bit of like, I'm here like running things, but I'm also like an example to people.

And like, although it's really fricking scary for me to share things, I'm always like, I want to share more so now than ever because I want this to be a space where someone like me could feel safe enough to fully be themselves. And it's really, really special. 

Caitie: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And when you do share not being super contrived about what is shared, I think that's what collapses community is when we try to contrive this version of ourselves that we want to present to the group. And I think that you can have integrity and be professional and get shit done without trying to contrive like professional Nicole versus like personal Nicole. And I find the more that I sort of like dissolve the line between who I am as a counselor and a mentor to people and then who I am as a person in my everyday life.

The more alive I feel because I don't have to put on this hat of like, now I'm going into professional mode, Caitie. It's exhausting to wear a mask. It's exhausting to put on a costume every time you step into a new role in your life. And then I can genuinely and authentically connect with people and I'm not this blank slate cement brick sitting on the other end of the computer. I'm a person. I share, they share, and we can be connected in a more equal way. 

Nicole: Yeah. And again, like this just reminds me of how I used to feel in corporate America. I felt like a totally different person at work versus at home because I just didn't feel like I was in a safe environment to actually be myself. I felt like if I were to be myself, it would be used against me. And that's another reason why some of these these groups feel more commodified is because they're just kind of using you as a pawn in their game. Whereas when you're in a true version of community, you're just there to heal and be witnessed and be with other people. And it's just a really authentic space versus that like really rigid conference room community. The conference room community. I just coined that term. 

Caitie: Are you in a conference room community or are you in a cozy community? Because our retreat that's coming up in Portugal in a couple of weeks is going to be that cozy community. And I really can't say enough about how alive you feel after genuinely connecting with people in a retreat-like setting. I feel like this quote that I heard from Elizabeth Gilbert, just comes through every single time I try to talk about this because it's so perfect. She says, everything I thought I could only get from one man, it turns out I can only get from a group of women. And I'm sure men's retreats are great too, like go on them if you happen to be a man listening to this. But my experience personally is that what I experienced on retreat to the group of women is the type of authentic connection and love and deep relief in my body that I always thought I was only going to be able to feel in a romantic relationship. Have you had that experience too? 

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've made such amazing friends even on our last retreat. Like they're some of the people that I truly trust the most in my life and I haven't even known them that long. But I think because the relationship started off so authentic, so vulnerable from the jump it just creates a completely different relationship to one that it just takes a lot more time to develop those things if you're not willing to go there. And they're also not willing to go there with you, too. 

Caitie: Yeah. Yeah. So as we're wrapping up the podcast, we do just want to talk about our retreat genuinely, because if you're listening to this and you're someone who is in a little bit of like a living for the weekend place, a little bit of like a I have no tolerance for the laundry basket filling up place like we want to invite you to come to Portugal with us, to be a part of our group, because I just, can't say enough about how special it's going to be. I mean, if you're feeling like a lot of question marks pop up for you about the concept of a retreat in general, I do just want to say what it actually is, because it's not like this super culty, like Illuminati kind of experience where you're not allowed to tell anyone what happens. Like you come and we're going to live in a beautiful house on the beach in central Portugal together for five nights and six days. And every single day we'll do some combination of eating three delicious meals together, doing things like body image and self-confidence workshops, yoga classes, little hikes and walks along the coastline in central national park, having some structured conversation that allows everyone to kind of be held and witnessed and work through the things that they want to work through in relation to self-confidence and body image and aliveness. We're going to do some emotional release practices like a breath work practice, like a conscious emotional release practice. We're going to have a Pilates teacher come in one day. I'm going to have a sound healer come in one day. We're going to have a photographer on the retreat with us. So everyone gets their own little mini photoshoot photos of them in Portugal that they can use to, you know, post on their hinge or their dating apps or their Instagrams or just used to start healing your relationship with your body and your relationship with photos of yourself. Anything I'm missing in like the tangibles. 

Nicole: Don't forget that you can make it your LinkedIn photo. Your black photo as well. Yeah. And yeah. Did you say the day trip in Lisbon?

Caitie: We're gonna be going to Lisbon for a day trip as well. And I used to live in Lisbon, so I happen to know a few good spots there, a few gems there. So that will be particularly special. But like honestly, above all of this, the group of people that are coming are going to be such a vibe. I mean, everyone is going to feel so genuinely connected and seen and supported and loved and valued by the end of this trip. I think another like little cheesy quote that always kind of comes to mind when I think about retreats is that we always back ourselves into corners when we think that our pain is exclusive to us and that our beauty is ordinary. And when we come on a retreat and spend a few days in a structured setting like a retreat, you realize that your pain is not unique to you. You are deeply felt and seen and not alone. And your beauty is unique to you. And that's what I love about a retreat too, is that it really gives you this opportunity to highlight the things that are so special about you, especially with so many people meeting you for the first time. They just see you in a way that, trust me, you haven't been seen in a while. 

Nicole: Yeah, not to mention that we're just going to have so much fun. I think retreats can sound really intense sometimes. And like, of course, we're going to do some really amazing, healing together and be vulnerable and all of those things that maybe you've been putting off. But it's also just going to be such an amazing time and in such a beautiful place. 

Caitie: Yeah. Well, to our point, also, like from the beginning of this podcast, like when you allow yourself to feel one side of the coin, you get deeper access to the other side. And the biggest piece of feedback that I got from people coming away from the Scotland retreat was that they feel so alive and they feel so touched by things and they feel so like moved and inspired and happy. And I think it is because the retreat is designed for you to heal and have fun. The retreat is designed for you to process and confront maybe some things you've been working on personally and emotionally, but then also just like lean into joy and have fun with people. And the balance of it is beautiful. Like we're going to rest and we're going to do stuff. We're going to eat veggies and we're going to eat dessert. Like it's and, and, and all of it. And, and, we have like about five spaces left. So we really want to know who is in. We are going in, I want to it's probably like a hundred days, less than a hundred days.

Something like that. counted, but I We'll count. We'll put it in the show notes. And yeah, we're kind of going to wrap up this podcast here, but thanks so much to my best friend for holding me accountable for getting back on the podcast microphone. This is connection and community in action. Like really? Like I just feel that this is one of those moments where I had been wanting to get back to podcasting for months, honestly, and I just couldn't get myself to rip the bandaid off for whatever reason. Couldn't get myself to just show up without, you know, the most perfect plan for what the new tagline was going to be and what this era of the podcast was going to look like. now I'm just like, you know what, whatever. I feel so much more confident. When I have my best friend by my side and I'm really thankful to have her here as, you know, the official production manager of the podcast now. 

Nicole: Yeah, I'm so excited. And also, I think our retreat is kind of like a version of ripping off the bandaid for other people too. So if you need us to help you rip off the bandaid of feeling all of the feels and getting to the gray area of life, then we can help you do that in a gorgeous place. 

Caitie: You can ask anyone who came on the last retreat. We don't leave you like after the retreat over. We don't exit your life. Like we will be rolling up. We will be showing up. We will be in your WhatsApp. Like we will be there in your life. Everyone from the Scotland retreat is still connected. We'd love to have you join our squad. Come through. Yeah. I forgot how to like end a podcast. I think if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five star rating on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks for joining this new era of Wholeful and alive. I'll be back here next fucking week, baby. Mark my words.